(laughs) that's the road. Speaker 2: That's it. Speak.Hello, hello.One, two, three. Speak.Speak. Hello. Okay. Ma... uh, maths and finance. Okay. Still doing it. Right. Do you do game theory? No. No? Well, we have some variety of (whispers).... what's a good one? What's a visual demo? Like wha- what visual questions- You meant for a visual? ... do you like in your course? Sorry? Yeah. What, like... what... what sort of topics do you like that's quite visual, that you can, like, draw? Um, draw? Yeah. So, like, mechanics, for example, where you could draw, like, a ball moving around or- Okay, yeah, yeah. Um- ... (whispers)Did you ever do the prisoners'... prisoners' dilemma (whispers)?... do the prisoners' dilemma (whispers)? 'Cause the prisoner's dilemma is basically like a table. No, I'm aware of what it is, but not... I don't remember it. (laughs) But, um, in our course, probably we have a lot of graphs at the end of... at the end of the day. So after all the calculations, you come up with a graph. Yeah. And based on the graph, you write your inference. So the graphical part of it is, again, also visual. Are you able to come up with one, like, on the spot? Sorry, what? Are you able to come up with, like, a graph and then explain it? We'll... we can get round to the demo later so (whispers) Um, I mean, it... it depends specifically what the question is and- Yeah, so, like, you basically would come up with a question on the spot and see whether our AI tutor, if you may, can help you s- solve the question. Okay, maybe I'll have to... I'll have to look into my notes or something. Yeah, that's fine. We can get round to that later. (whispers) Yeah. Cool, right. So, yeah, just, you know, to start off with a, uh, yeah, we'll ask you a few questions to sort of introduce yourself, whatnot. Is that good rule, right? Yeah. Okay. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Just sort of go through your educational experience. We'll speak a little more about, like, the (whispers) problems in between and we'll sort of jump to, like, basically what we are building and what, uh, effect it will be. Okay. Um, so yes, quickly introduce yourself if you don't mind. Sort of who you are, what it is that you do at Imperial, what's been your past educational experience, uh, how you got here. Okay, it's, uh, looking at that, right? Uh, no, just be... just don't be (whispers) too- I look at it- ... relaxed. Yeah. Oh, I don't look at the camera. Uh, you can look... you can look wherever you want. Okay. That's why I was getting confused. But you... this is just a conversation. Okay, so- So no worries. Uh, my name is Abhiraj. Uh, Abhiraj Darbari. Uh, I'm from India, New Delhi. Um, I joined Imperial, um, in September 2024 for the master's program, um, doing an MSC in mathematics and finance. Um, I have a maths background as well, so I did my undergraduate degree in mathematics from the University of Delhi, St. Stephen's College. Um, and then I felt over a period of time that while I was there at university that, uh, I didn't wanna study the applied fields of maths, um, not so much into the theoretical anymore. Um, and yeah, I felt Imperial was a, you know, great college. Um, I had a friend, a couple of friends actually, who were here. I heard great things about the university, and that's why, uh, I enrolled into this course. Brilliant, yeah. And can you speak a little bit more about, you know, from the sort of, uh, educational perspective of transitioning, uh, between, firstly, from high school to university, uh, to from one university to, obviously, Imperial now. Uh, how, how has it been? Have you had to adapt your approaches to learning? How has that been? So from high school to my undergraduate degree, it was a very smooth transition, uh, because I'm used to the Indian system of education. Um, we do have the IB board, um, in, in, in India as well, but I didn't take that. So it was ICSE or ISC, that's our board. Um, and undergraduate degree in India is very similar to that. Uh, the system is quite similar. But when I switched from my undergraduate to my postgrad here, I definitely found it quite challenging. Um, I felt that the questions were a lot more applied, uh, specifically in the exams. Uh, back in India, it's... it's more about volume, uh, but individually, I wouldn't argue that the questions are that hard, but it's a lot of questions, so they compensate with the volume. Um, over here, we have volume as well as the applied part of it, which is difficult to, to kind of cope up with, but, um, I... I'm... I'm sure, like, people are able to find a way. I was able to find a way, uh, eventually. Initially, I struggled a bit. Uh, it's more about identifying the sy- identifying the system that you're in. Um, and yeah, I... I... I guess I figured a way to kind of deal with it. Yeah. So would you say that it's more focused on understanding, if that's sort of, like, a differentiating factor than, like, application of, like, true deep understanding of concepts and, and- Compared to the undergraduate degree? Um, definitely, I feel it is... here, we do kind of go be- just a little bit beyond the coursework, and you're encouraged to do that. Um, back in India, I think as long as you're confident with the coursework that, that, that works. Uh, but over here, it's... I guess you learn better overall comparatively. I would definitely, uh, agree with that. Um, but it's, it's a change in, in the thinking more than anything else. Yeah. And so how have you dealt with these sort of, you know, differences in style? You know, and speaking even beyond just like your, you know, high level of, you know, making different applications and whatnot, but also, maybe if you could speak a few words about, you know, different delivering methods. I'm not sure how you guys do it in India because obviously, uh, here we have, uh, mostly structures of lectures... uh, lecture, you know (whispers) content being delivered and some sort of like paid tutorials- Correct. ... uh, where you get to apply. Uh, how has that changed? Okay. So in India, we have, uh, mainly just the exams. Um, the lectures and the tutorials are quite similar, um, as they are over here. Obviously, the mode of teaching would be slightly different, but in essence, it's semester-wise examinations that you're gonna prepare for and, and it's 100% exam. Over here, obviously, we have projects and courseworks and all... and all of that ki- kind of stuff going on. Um, so from the surface level, it seems similar, but when you actually get down into the, the exam itself, that's where the difference kind of starts. Um, in India, it's... to get a higher grade, it's easier to score more in the exam. Um, it has a lot of syllabus, so it's more about maximizing the, the paper. That's the skill. So it's a different kind of skill set that you acquire. Um, it's like you have so much content, you have to kind of identify the important parts and you'll be able to crack the exam. So cracking the exam would be the, the idea. And you're able to do that. You, you actually are able to score quite a good, good number out of 100, maybe in the 90s as well, uh, for some people. Um, so it would be more about memorizing, um, rather than applying, to be brutally honest. It's more about how much data you can remember as opposed to... obviously, you need to understand that to be able to even use it, but, um, going beyond the coursework is, is not that essential. Uh, over here, I would say that you need to study differently. Uh, it's not so much about memorizing, it's more about actually understanding at a deeper level what you're doing. Um, and it kind of develops your intuition, I would say. So it's more about intuitive thinking that, uh, I... I... I felt like I had to kind of adapt here is. Just... if... if I just absorbed a lecture and I'm... I'm understanding what's going on, I don't think that's completely enough. Yeah. I need to be able to solve problems on my own and develop that level of thinking that's required to kind of do well on an exam. But in India, it's like, if you're comfortable with the lectures, if you just understand, let's say, the sy-... from... for example, in mathematics, it's like any theorem, they'll ask you the proof.... so, sure you can, I mean, rote learn it, you can understand it, but the questions are pretty much standard. Mm-hmm. Over here is like not just the proof, but something more and to be able to a- answer that something more, you need to do something more actually. So that's- that's the- Got it. Thanks very much for answering that brilliantly. Yeah. And, you know, going sort of, uh, alongside of the route of, you know, we were talking about intuition and developing intuition as you were, uh, solve, uh, questions. How... what ha- what sort of approaches have worked best for you in terms of that? Uh, where have you seeked help to, you know, apply it in the way as to make sense For you, um- Okay. Um, (clicks tongue) the only kind of tweak that I made was I made my study sessions slightly, I mean, smaller, in terms of length. Um, if I... uh, this is completely personal. I've noticed that if I have to memorize stuff, I can sit for long. Um, it's pretty easy for me, comes naturally to me. It's something that I've also followed, uh, all these years, so it's pretty easy for me. Understanding something to the T requires more brain capacity, so I- I kinda shorten my study sessions. Um, and all I do is, uh, let's say if I'm- if I have lecture in front of me, um, anything, I'll read it a couple of times until I've understood it and I'll try to reproduce it on paper in my own words, being the- the underlying, uh, thing. Uh, I'll be able to just, I guess, learn better and explain it to myself in my own words and without looking at the- the- the lecture notes. Yeah. Uh, that's not something I did earlier. Earlier I would just kind of copy it down and memorize it later. Why do you think that is? Uh, do you think that the lecture content here is, uh, sort of in- in- insuff- insufficient for, like, your way of learning, the way you understand? Or do you think that, uh, the content is harder? It's just different. Yeah. I wouldn't say it's easier or harder, it... If I had to pick, I would lean towards harder. Okay. But that's mainly due to the system, and that's just a different system. I'm pretty sure if, uh, somebody who is born and brought up in this system would go back in India, they would find it incredibly difficult as well. Um, and I would find it easy, because I'm used to it. So, similarly over here, I guess people from, uh, European backgrounds, uh, would not find it as challenging as me. Um, so I wouldn't say necessarily it's better or worse. It's just different. Yep. That's it. And- Yeah. ... you know, jumping sort of more into the stories, right? Uh, can you describe sort of a little bit more of your, uh, work ethic there? You know, um, as you go along solving a tutorial question, uh, how... w- what do you do when you come across a question that, you know, you may be struggling to solve? Uh, what sort of further resources do you seek? Uh, do you just look at a solution? Uh, how do you best approach it so you understand it fully? So, let's say I look at a question. Mm-hmm. Um, there could be two cases. Case one, I don't understand (laughs) anything at all. Case two, I understand it somewhat, but I'm not able to like execute my vision into an answer. So, for the first case obviously I'll have to use resources, whether- whether it's online or AI or something to learn as much as I can. Um, then again, I hopefully end at case two, where I've now understood something and I'm now able to execute it. For the second case, it's- is when I kinda just write things down, that, okay, this is what I'm trying to do, but I'm not able to finish it. And then, again, using online resources or some sort of AI. And I- I have this thing where I'll write an answer down, I'll put it into an AI, and I'll be like, "Don't give me the answer. Just, can you give me a hint?" And I try and minimize that as possible, you know, the- the fact that it- it can give me the answer is not something I wanna do continuously. So, I'll just try and make sure that it gives me a hint and that's the process. I- I keep on... (laughs) I continue- continue that way. All right. 'Til I'm able to do it online. All right. And if I'm not able to do it at all, then of course, that- that happens sometimes as well. Uh, then I guess I just have to use some- any- any kind of resource. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. So, you're basically just... you're just... so like, you're basically looking just for that, you know, unblocking factor to just get you going- Yeah. ... maybe you could call it, like, a hint to continue solving the problem, right? Yeah, essentially, that- that- that's it. So, for me it's more like I'm kinda getting just a bit closer. Mm-hmm. And in my head, if I'm at point A and I need to go to point B and I don't have the information, I don't have it. There's no... there's no point in denying that I don't have it. So, once I get that, let's say I have to go from A to E. A to E, A, B, C, D, E and I... now I need these snippets of information and I'd ask an online resource or AI or whatever to give me that information. Now that I have it, hopefully I can make the transition doing that five times, I- I reach till E. But if I'm not able to do that at all, then of course, I mean, I'm only human. (laughs) So, yeah. Uh, can you speak a little bit more about, uh, how your tutorials work at... is it in person ƒ(?) or, uh, more be able... do you get to speak to the lecturers to say help you also as like an additional resource in terms of, you know, getting stuck on a particular part of the problem? Um, so I think they are fairly, uh, good with the tutorials. Um, (clicks tongue) a lot of people don't end up attending the tutorials o- obviously. (laughs) So there are lesser people, uh, but that makes it better because they usually just discuss the homework sheets that are uploaded for each, uh, module. So, on average I will assume there are five to seven for each course over the term. Um, and those sheets are discussed in chronological order throughout the- the course and any issues I think students mail the professors, can ask for, um, you know, some kind of extra time and I think it's... I haven't done that personally yet, um, but I think it- it works. Nice. So, yeah, that- that's something that's- that's been fairly, I think, good. Do you get much, uh, one-on-one personal time, uh, here with the tutors and lecturers and, uh, how does that also compare to India? Um, after the- the lecture I think usually I see a couple of students going to the professor, but of course- This is also for the tutorials? For the tutorials, I'm saying. Yeah. Uh, specifically right now I'm talking about the tutorials. Even for the lectures, but right now the tutorial. Um, during the tutorial I- I- I... all questions are entertained, so I- I would believe that most people have their doubts answered there and then, because it's the same thing that's being discussed. It's like, usually they discuss two questions per sheet, two to three questions, and it's being discussed in- in the- the same order for everybody. So, let's say I have a question, if somebody else has a similar question, it could possibly just be answered, uh, like that. But I guess if somebody has a specific question they could go up to the professor after the lecture and mostly they- they do entertain up 'til the room is free. Afterwards, I think they- they always tell us that, "Just send us an email or you can find me in this building from this time. Um, you can have a one-on-one." So, I'm assuming people would do that. But, yeah, there is, uh, there is help out there for sure. Would you say that, um, you've not had... like, you've not had questions that you've, uh, needed to seek help from, uh, lecturers on? Or, is it that, you know, it's a lot of factors that impact this or your access to the lecturers? For me personally, I would say I'm, um, in a position to ask questions once I go through it myself. Mm-hmm. So I don't really ask questions during the lecture because I'm still absorbing things. Um, once I look at it myself, once I've probably, you know, understood it fully, that's when I'm in a position to ask questions about it. And usually then I- I- I- I am lagging behind (laughs) so if I have any questions, I usually just go personally, uh, after the lecture. I've done that a few times where I just ask the- the lecturer this particular thing from the previous lecture I didn't understand. And you also mentioned, you know, oftentimes you really have, you know, p-It clicks or it doesn't click when you get to applying the knowledge, right? Okay. Uh, so is it that you have the necessary support from the university and lecturers when you're solving the, the problem sheets on your own? Or would you like some sort of, uh, additional help, uh, you know, from lecturers to being able to reach out to them when you need it, when you are actually working on that on your own? I mean, any help is welcome, of course. Mm-hmm. Um, honestly, I think depends on the paper, really depends on the module. So for some of them that are more theoretical, I feel the problem sheets are fairly simple comparatively. But, uh, maybe for the applied modules, some of them do tend to go a little bit beyond the scope of the syllabus. Uh, not the syllabus, but let's say the lecture notes. So you have to do your own research. So over there, I guess, uh, it could come in handy, um, for sure. Yeah. So- And then understanding step by step, um, it, it, it makes it... some other kind of resource will definitely make it easier for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, makes perfect sense. Uh, do you guys, uh, have any sort of more non-degree questions? And then if not, we can move over to the demo.Can you talk about what is and process for AI is?Oh, yeah. Oh, actually that's a very good point. Uh, you, you mentioned, uh, using AI. Uh, can you sort of elaborate on specifically how you use it to, uh, you know, compliment your current, uh, learning process? So let's say I'm studying from the lecture notes. Um, hopefully I should be in a position where I don't have to use it. Um, but let's say there's a particular snippet. Something I, I actually I struggle with is understanding the handwriting, for example. So, because it's mostly handwritten digitally. So, um, it's difficult for me to understand what's written, and then I'll just input it in the ChatGPT and, you know, explain what's written. So... And then it's... and then I, I guess I kind of train it myself. Okay. Like, you know, make it more simple or something like that, just tailor to my own learning style. Um, and eventually I think it works out. So that would be it. And then again, the, the fact that I... that what I mentioned earlier is that I keep prompting it to not give me the answer. Yeah. But bring me just closer so I can do it myself. That would be the idea always. Would you say that the current sort of, uh, lecture con- lecture material is not optimized for your learning process then? No, I would say it is optimized. Okay. Um, the handwriting, I, I guess is, is not, uh, something that I can blame anybody for. Okay. Uh, so that's completely fine, but I guess sometimes in the lectures you might... they might bring some result, let's say, from an earlier course that you might not remember. Um, let's say it's a standard formula. So now you're wondering, okay, where did this come from? It's there step by step, it makes sense, but you don't remember the formula. So oftentimes in the lectures, the backstory is not given, which I'm... I would say is not possible as well, because how much can you write? So that's where I feel the AI comes in handy, because I've, I've done this a few times. Let's say they just introduced, we... they, like, you know, studied earlier or something and I put that in ChatGPT and I just tell it to give me the backstory. So tell me everything I need to know from before to be able to do this question. Any standard result or anything. And once it tells me that, it makes it easier for me to follow whatever's written, uh, because I'm like, okay, this is the new stuff that I'm learning and this is standard theory that we've done before and I possibly just have to know. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's the... Would you say that this applies throughout the course? I think different students have, uh, quite different backgrounds. So, you know, there's quite a, you know, well, difference of like a, you know, whether everybody is up to speed, uh, when it comes to learning a new module here. I'm sure that would be the case, although in my class I feel it's, um... it's a lot of European students, 50% would be European. So hope- probably I'm assuming they would be more comfortable with, um, with the way things are. The rest 50% are from outside. So now again, I don't know specifically from where, but, um, it's a mix of other places. And again, I'm sure they would have their own struggles and it really... it's very specific, because the Indian system is extremely specific to the country of India. That's the, that's the idea. So the way the education is... you know, eh, the way it's structured, the way it's taught, it's meant to excel in our country. That's the way it is. And I'm assuming it is the case here as well. So, uh, it's coun- country specific, so it really depends. But overall, for sure, it would be a, a little difficult to, to cope initially. Yeah. Um, so yeah, so, so like a, a quick background on what we are doing. So, uh, our project, uh, uh, you know, basically as part of one of the sub enterprises for all of the modules, uh, in our course, we, uh, built, uh, something we call a personalized learning experience. That's great. So basically, yeah. (overlapping conversation) So it appears. Um, so I can do what it is, is, uh, you know, a tutor that is, uh, always available there to help you. Okay. Uh, you can structure the different, uh, format. Okay. So, you know, you're talking about how right now, uh, you know, you need to basically take like a screenshot and whatnot. Uh, get it to- Yeah. ... get you begin to get the- Yeah. ... you know, get to see what the next step is. Well, we do exactly that, but instead of there having to be that sort of intermediate, uh, you know, step and not really the most optimal way for you to practice. Yeah. You have like a tutor-like experience of one-on-one where you're solving something on the whiteboard. You can start... uh, you can click a button to speak to the tutor, you can ask any questions. And, like, you know, what is very important there is, you know, what you were saying too, like, it's not designed, our system, to just give you straight away the answer. What it is designed to do is to get you just enough information- Hmm. ... uh, based on the learning style that you have, to get you to the next point, to get you to, uh, continue, uh, solving the question and get the right answer, hopefully, uh, in one way or another. Uh, also once, you know, there is some sort of a blockade, uh, to get you to solve some alternative, uh, questions. So if you really understand the part that you were blocked on, so you can do the rest of the questions on your own. So, uh, we hope that we can give you a quick demo. Okay, sure. Just showing you the platform and then you can- So, this is Ambi. Uh, you should use your pen as if you normally would. Uh, and you can write on... write on the canvas. Uh, when we kind of say start session, so once we set everything up, just press start session. You can start talking to it. Do you need to close this window first? Oh, yeah. We can even write the question down as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's... so any format. So if you can think of, like, uh, you said previously that you, uh, like graphs. Uh, but you, you do... no, not graphs. Uh, you do a lot of graphs in, in your example. Maybe draw out a graph, uh, with a concept, maybe a formula to, to explain it, and then something that's kind of challenging that you wouldn't really expect, uh, the, the AI to be able to answer. Uh, and then try and act as if you didn't know the answer to the question. Okay. I mean, I, I can try something out. So, so, uh, set yourself... so set it all out in the pa- on the page, uh, and then when you're ready, just press start session, and then we can start, uh, it's active. So I, I write it down? Yeah. Just write, write down formulas, graphs, lines, whatever, whatever you want- Okay. ... and then it should be able to, uh, help you with it. Okay. So I start the session, and then write or-Uh, write first and then w- we'll just-Okay.... see where we are and then start the session.Mm-hmm. Yeah. Let me think of something. (chirping) (pen clicking)Then start speaking to it.No, sorry.And then, start, start speaking to it, ask it questions, uh, draw in the diagram-Okay.... different arrows. Uh-So I, I wrote the question down, I need to s- say it as well?Uh, d- don't, don't say the question, just kind of- Okay. So you would like me to explain value at risk and expected shortfall graphically, also including the concept of confidence intervals, and prepare a demo case with data. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. I can certainly do that. However, I am not able to draw a graph, so I will need to describe it instead. Okay. Would that work for you? Yeah, yeah. Sure. Okay. So let's start with value at risk, or VaR. Value at risk is a statistical measure that estimates the potential loss of an investment or portfolio over a specific time period, given a certain confidence level. In other words, it tells you the maximum loss you could expect with a given probability. Would you like me to continue explaining VaR or move on to expected shortfall? Move on. Okay. So expected shortfall, also known as conditional value at risk, or cVaR, is another risk measure. It goes a step further than VaR by estimating the expected loss given that the loss exceeds the VaR threshold. It can be considered as the average of losses beyond the VaR cutoff point. Okay. So you didn't- Would you like me to elaborate more about- So you didn't sort of explain anything. ... expected shortfall, or move on to confidence intervals? Just, uh, scroll down a little bit and then maybe draw a graph associated with it. And-I... Basically, what I was going for is if it can... Can it create a table of data?It can't create a table of data.So that, that is useful, but when you- Okay. I understand. You would like me to create a table of data that can be used to demonstrate value at risk. But, um, see where it can help you, like the, can spot maybe mistakes with, you know, simulate sort of like a slap point, uh, I think that could be good.Oh. Okay. So you would like a table of data to simulate a scenario so you can spot- Just inter- just interrupt it. And-No, I wouldn't-... or, or stop the session for a while. Okay. I will interrupt itself. See if you can get it to draw something else. Yeah, no, go ahead. Let me know if there's anything- Okay. No, because I thought that, um, I explained it mathematics and concepts.Yeah. Would you like the table to contain longer terms? Um, yeah. It, it, it shows a bit, but...Yeah. So that, that, that was the idea. Introduce the concept, couple of concepts-Yeah.... um, that can be explained graphically.Okay.Represented graphically.All right.Um, but for that, you need to, you need to have some data.Yeah.Um, basis the data, you create the graphs. As, as, as... It's more, it has more technical elements to it.Yeah.But this is the most basic way in which I could explain it.So in the long term, we would like, uh, to display graphs, data annotations from the la- from the model itself.Yeah.But for right now, uh, its limitation is that you can wr- write down, like if you have a question, uh, you can write down equations, you can write, you can draw graphs, um, annotations, um, anything like that. It can visually see what's going on. It can listen to you. But the only output that it has is a voice output.Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.Um, so for example, uh, what you could do is in mechanics, you could draw like a, like a ball that's being kicked and then-Yeah.... uh, draw an arrow and go like, "Oh, what would be the-"Okay. Okay. Oh, okay. Okay."... velocity at a specific point?"Yeah. Okay.So-I got it. Yeah. It's a little difficult with the maths because usually you need some data-Yeah.... in order to-Could you, like, uh, if you're doing like some sort of optimization, so like if you could have a graph, uh, with like a, a peak and then maybe explain what the peak is. Like just a generic graph, not the-Okay. Maybe. I mean, um, sure. I could-If you need to, This one. Or just interrupting that.Yeah. More, more in depth.Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Wait, is this on? Um, I just drew a graph. Uh, can you interpret that for me? Okay. Sure. The text at the top says, "Explain value at risk, VaR." Oh. It's going, it's going above.You can just see, you can write invest in-Skip that. Okay. The full text at the top says- Start from the law, from the Law of DMU. Okay. The text next to the graph says Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility. Then below that graph, it says, "Explain/interpret this graph." Is there anything else you would like me to read or explain? I want you to interpret the graph. What does the graph mean? What, what does it indicate? The graph shows a curve that initially rises, reaches a peak, and then declines. The X-axis is labeled Utility Derived (Satisfaction) and the Y-axis is labeled Time. This graph illustrates the Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility, suggesting that as time increases, the utility or satisfaction from a given activity or good will increase initially, but will eventually reach a point where it starts to decline. Is that a good interpretation? A little more detail with an example possibly, um, anywhere where we can apply this concept. Okay. Let's consider eating pizza as an example. Initially, the first slice of pizza will provide a large amount of satisfaction or utility. As you eat more, the satisfaction will continue to increase, but each additional slice provides slightly less satisfaction than the one before. Eventually, you'll reach a point where you're full and the satisfaction from eating additional slices will start to diminish. At this stage, another slice will still give you some utility, but much less compared to when you were hungry. Could you maybe- Is this a helpful example? Uh, yeah. Um, maybe try and, uh, like not understand the concept. So maybe give, uh, may- maybe say, "Oh, wait. So does that mean..." And then like be wrong in that case so that it can correct you. (laughs) If you go to the pizza example, you're like, "Okay. Does that mean that if I eat, uh, three pizzas, uh, I'll be much happier than if I eat one pizza?" So you're saying I say something wrong? Say something wrong and then see how it corrects you. Okay. Okay. I mean, let- let's just go with what you said. Yeah. So in that case, for, for the law of diminishing marginal utility, does, does that mean that for each extra unit of commodity consumed, I'll be a happier person, which means I should consume as many as possible infinitely? Not quite. The law of diminishing marginal utility implies that each additional unit of a good consumed provides less additional satisfaction than the previous one. So at some point, the additional satisfaction from consuming more decreases. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. Um, any modifications to the graph? Um, could I, could I possibly go beneath the X-axis, um, hinting at kinda negative satisfaction? It's not typical to represent negative satisfaction in this context. The law of diminishing marginal utility generally focuses on the decreasing rate of positive satisfaction. However, we could discuss how negative utility could be graphed if you would like to do that. Sure. Okay. If you were to graph negative utility, the line would continue going down below the X-axis, which represents zero utility. This would mean that consuming more would actually make you less satisfied than having nothing. Does that help explain how negative utility can be graphed? Is that more of a theoretical concept or does that have practical implications? While the idea of negative utility is more theoretical, it can help explain some real-world situations where consuming too much of something can lead to dissatisfaction. Would you like an example of a practical implication of negative utility? Sure. ... gave it that 10 seconds. Okay. Yeah, no. Um, so yeah. Like, a few thoughts about, uh, I guess the way it, in practice and, uh, whether it's applicable to you at your course. Uh, if it is, how would you use it? I mean, I- I'm sure it would be. Uh, because sometimes you have graphs in front of you, and you might not be able to interpret everything. It might have a lot of technicality that you might not understand or something along those lines. So from that perspective, for sure. Um, I, I, I think it's definitely, it has quite a bit of potential. But the only thing I felt is if... Um, like the first thing that I put in was if you can create a sample for me. Mm-hmm. You know, because if it's a concept, um, which... See, this, maybe it's more of, of a math-specific thing, but anything that we're doing in the master's course typically needs data. And then you have concepts that you apply to that data. So when you're trying to learn about the concept that's applicable to a set of data, it's always good to have a set of data, right? So, uh, I might not have access to it there and then. Maybe I have to get it off the internet. I'm sure I, I can find it other, uh, in some way or the other. But for example, on ChatGPT, it creates some set of data for you. It could be completely random, and it'll just show you a graph. So it makes it easier to kind of understand, um, how this is applied, um, in principle, and that's it. That, that's the only small thing. Otherwise, I think it's- And in terms of like more solving parts of it or, you know, sort of theoretical, you know, code or whatnot. You know, say you, you have a point that you get stuck at. Uh, would you see this as a sort of a way to get yourself unstuck, like to seek help by using a tutoring session? Also, not necessarily graphs even. So we use graphs 'cause it's quite a visual example. It's a little bit more not really used in, in a wide context. Uh, but yeah, you could write out your equations and your notes and your derivations, and it would still be, it would still respond the same way. Fair enough. Yeah, yeah. Maybe I need to input more data, you know. Maybe I need to write more stuff down for which I'll have the lecture notes in front of me. Right. So I guess it makes it more efficient in terms of time, um, because I'm writing at the same time while I'm looking at the notes, and I'm receiving whatever feedback or tutoring, so to say, live. In ChatGPT, it's a bit of a process. And personally, I'm not the most tech-savvy, so yeah. I, I, I usually find the most inefficient ways to kind of go about it. (laughs) But I think for per- for a person like me, it's probably makes my life easier for sure. Yeah. And would you say that this is, uh, you know, you prefer this way of getting immediate feedback on what you're working on, uh, as opposed to sort of waiting and planning to wait potentially for a lecturer to get the way that, uh, the lecturer is going to explain it? I guess it's... If you're learning at a linear rate, then I guess it's perfect. Where... What I'm trying to say is the lecture said, the lecturer said like five lines, you absorb them, it tells you the five lines, now you've moved ahead, now new five lines. But if you weren't following for the first five, then it kind of makes it a little difficult to, to keep up. So I would always personally first go over everything myself, and then maybe the second time when I'm trying to understand what's going on, at that point, I would al- already have put in all the data because I've written the notes down. Now for the second time, obviously I would have things that I want to look at maybe once or twice. And in that case, I feel it, it'll be beneficial for me personally. Um, for others, maybe the first time it couldn't be beneficial, but I'm just saying from a very personal, uh, thing, that, that's what I feel. Yeah. Because I tend to kind of waver off and then I kind of bring myself back. So if it's talking while I've wavered, wavered off, it's not... Uh, it won't be the best for me. Yeah. Uh, sort of like, you know, quick fire, sort of like a recap of, uh, what we were talking about. What would you say are the main problems that, that a tool such will be solving for our student today? It, again, I feel it really depends on what they're studying because so much of it depends on- So if you like your, your course ... um, maybe it can help you keep a track of stuff, um, that you don't know of, let's say, and- and I'm going through lecture notes, um, whereas I, I think I brought this up earlier as well, where let's say a concept has been brought up that I don't know of or I knew of before, I don't remember it. So in that case, when I ask it there and then, okay, what is this? It gives me a backstory, and I can understand the subsequent lines. As opposed to, I do that manually, so I go to let's say Google or some other kind of AI, and I... Okay, what is this? So it can save time that way, and it can help you from, you know, disturbing any kind of flow. Because let's say you're in the process. Now you have one line which you don't understand, which you're not supposed to either. So if it just tells you the backstory for it, it builds your flow. As opposed to now I am like, okay, what is this? And I now start studying about this, and I go somewhere else, and then I'm back and I have to kind of go back few lines and read that all over again. And so it... I think most importantly, it saves time. Yeah. That would be the idea. Okay. Because otherwise on Google you can do a, you can search everything manually. It has everything over there, but it's just very time-consuming, and it, and it disrupts the flow of a person.... who's trying to study. So from that perspective, I think it's quite useful, yeah. Okay. Thank you. (Inaudible) Oh, yeah, I mean, uh, I guess this school is really meant for, you know, the sort- the, the sort of s- to give you the support you need, uh, sort of ƒ (1:00) at all times. Uh, do you see much, uh, use out of, you know, uh, if the university was to provide a tool as such, you know? Where you're trying to (1:09) like wait as if you had another tutor in the room pretty much 24/7 whether you're preparing for your exams tomorrow- Yeah. ... or, you know, it's going through the term? Well, I guess how much ute- would you assign to that? Quite a bit for sure, definitely because again, it's specific to everybody's learning style. But irrespective, I would argue that to a great deal, it would benefit anybody. Doesn't matter how they learn. Um, it, it definitely would and assuming different subjects have different kind of methods. Uh, for paper like maths, which has a lot of graphs, um, and you could kinda get stuck with the technicalities, it could help you there and then. Mm-hmm. And just clear the air. Mm-hmm. That would be the main, uh, use that I would see in my case. In terms of the time and sort of availability of such tool at all times, uh, do you think that's something that should be sort of, uh, as one of our sort of selling factors that- I think your main selling factor is the time. Okay. Because as I said, everything that we're studying is available (laughs) on the internet. Yeah. You just need time to find it. Extra time, you need time to waste actually. So you can go through all kinds of AI, you know, you can train all sorts of models. You can go to the 10th page on, on your search results. (laughs) You, you'll find a lot of information there. It's all already there, but saving the time, even on ChatGPT, you have to manually enter everything. Yeah. It's easier to just ask and when you're asking also, it's like you're able to explain it better also. Yeah. Uh, say it's less like, you know, you don't have to type. You can input audio on ChatGPT as well, but then you have to go there and you have to kind of give it its own set of information. Whereas this is a simultaneous process, you're learning at the same time, and it's absorbing the data that you're writing as opposed to on ChatGPT, you have to write it over there. Yeah. And you know, it's, it's time-consuming. Right. So definitely the, the time is the main factor, um, and I think it's a big factor. Yeah. Thank you so much. Um, in terms of the product, yeah, if you wanted to try it out yourself, uh, it's fully available on, uh, in Crail.usmp.com. Okay. We've, uh, released it to, uh, quite a few students. I think at this point we've had over 300, almost 400 unique, uh, visitors that have tried it out. Uh, so yeah, please do use it to give some feedback. Sure, sure. And, uh, and yeah, thanks a lot for your time. Thank you. Hope this was not too, too much of a burden for you. No, no, same. Thank you. All right. Great. Thank you. (paper rustling) (laughs) Got you.