Meeting Title: Family business and inheritance — settlement strategy with Punit Uncle
Date: Aug 28
Meeting participants: Arnav Bhatia

Transcript:
Me: अगर ये आप stop कर दो तो एक बंद कर लो. Hello? Hello. आया ना. Hi hi पनीत अंकिल. How are you? Good time to talk बेटा. हां जी हां जी yes of course. How are you? Happy राखी. Happy राखी ना, happy राखी I am good. How are you? Thank you, madam. I'm good, बेटा. Great. So I just wanted to get like, some advice. Like, I basically when to meet दावुदादी yesterday for dinner, And, like, last time I remember in our meeting, you mentioned, like, in the next generation, like, I'm the only son. So there'll be, like, the future generation that made me sort of more open towards them. So then when I met them, then they were constantly, like, telling me ideas that can actually help me build. Like, दादू said he, like, wanted to give me a piece of land to help me establish myself regardless of the settlement. And, like, दादी was telling me about different ideas as well and projects, and she said that I should, like, sit and learn with her for an hour or two and, like, learn from her and use her contacts to establish myself. And she also then mentioned कि right now mama won't let me join the bird group right now. But you can establish your own company and work on that, and later down the line, we we can then that in the group. Why would mama not let you join गोर्द्रु? So that's what said. I mean, right now, I think that mama's perspective is कि they won't let me do anything or like they'll control me and all of that. Right. So नहीं, एक दादी बेटा देखो मैं एक चीज़ बताता हूं. हां जी. Your alone right now? हां जी, हां जी, I am alone. बेटा देखो अम्मा has gone through a lot. Right. Ok. We have to be, she doesn't want, she is lost her closest relationships. हां जी. ठीक है? And in a very untimely and tragic manner. हां जी. Not just not just husband. Even siblings. You know what I'm saying. Right? I'm sure and all the all when a person goes through so much हां जी. तो थोड़ा सा बेटा मन में obviously डर लगता है. Yes. ठीक है? Now you are the only person she has you and साहिना. Yes. That's a that's a word. हां जी. है ना? तो उनको and also in her mind, it is true also, she was misheated also here. Right. ठीक है? Whatever reason. So trust zero है. Exactly. ठीक है? ठीक है? तो I think थोड़ा सा but she cares a lot also about you guys. Mhmm. ठीक है? She she wants the best for you. Right. Right? But she cannot trust him anymore. Right. तो now the point point I'm making is I don't think we have to also get bound by her worldview. Right. They will not help us. हां जी. ठीक है? तो अगर अगर गाधी बोल रही हैं bird group join कर लो. हां जी. उसमें क्या नुकसान है? Right. मतलब I'm just thinking See, mama को डर यह लगता कि वह तुम्हारा mind को poison करके उनको उनसे अलग कर दिया? Exactly. यह उनका fear है. ठीक है? वह उनको constantly बेटा reinforce करना पड़ेगा कि ऐसा कभी कुछ नहीं होगा. कम भी नहीं होगा. और यह ना बेटा for a woman ना you have to hear it 10 times. You have to keep hearing it. For a man ना एक बार बोल दिया, दो बार बोल दिया कि बोल तो दिया मैंने. हां जी, हां जी exactly. पर जैसे हम लोग India में I love you नहीं बोलते हैं ना? हां. अब वहां पर तो हर रोज़ बोलते ही हैं लोग express करते हैं अपने आप को. यहां पर भी तुमको बार बार express करना पड़ेगा mama I am with you only. आप बिल्कुल चिंता मत करो. Right. तो will she oppose you joining the board group? तुम दादी को बोलो कि दादी if you want me inside, I'm I'm work with you. हां. मैं अपना app करता रहूंगा. और मैं यह करता रहूंगा. हां जी. Is that is that a possibility? You tell her कि no, mama is not not against. अगर तुम्हारे को join देती इससे better तो कुछ हो ही नहीं सकता. हां जी. And ठीक है, थोड़ा उनके under सीखेंगे ना. क्या दिक्कत है आप? हां जी, नहीं I mean I I completely am aligned with that view. तो तुम बोल दो दादी को कि मेरी mama will not oppose me. Ok. तो then आप join कर सकती हैं तो कराओ. Then following that then if we have to go that route, then how do we then handle the settlement? Like, do I, हां तो नहीं तो is it is it contingent on the settlement? Or not मतलब that's a good point you're making. So, हां like, so Look, some independence also मतलब, I'm just wondering. Like, I don't know. Up to you. I mean, I I don't know. मतलब, are you saying you keep 30 you you keep 35% share? मतलब the only worry I have there is हां जी. And I think we can we can pay it slow step by step also. जी. If you have minority shares, tomorrow when दादी दादू are not there Right. What happens? Will you be treated fairly? ऐसा ना हो कि हम अपना next five ten years यहां लगा दें हां जी. And then something मतलब यह kid doubt. Right. How do we manage that? Is a मतलब is a मतलब scenario I am thinking about. How I'm sometimes ऐसा भी होता है इतना fear में क्यों रहे हैं? Once you are in we can do a lot of things. Right. कैसे सोचना चाहिए? मतलब I'm also wondering. तो I don't know the dynamics. वही exactly like, so even when we had earlier decided कि we approach दादी with the four points and the one pager. तो उसमें my my thought was that like based on what they said yesterday like I'm not sure then would they feel like कि बस उनसे बात करूं ताकि settlement करा दें and I don't want anything there. And so I was a bit hesitant on like, you know, how we want to proceed that way. Like, there is a possibility for me where I was also considering, like like you said right now, where Sine and I keep our shares. There. But then that that I mean, then the entire recalculation and stuff, like, it sort of goes So बेटा उसमें एक ही problem है. बताएं? हां जी. Yeah. तो फिर mama was saying कि अगर नहीं होता है then she will proceed with the cases. हां जी. वह दोनों चीज़ें तो नहीं हो सकती फिर हमको clear होना पड़ेगा तो फिर हम cases नहीं करें. तो वही like. वह से जो एक case है जहां पर वह miss mismanage and operation हां जी. That's a strong case. जी. तो मामा हो जाएंगे वह वाला मैं proceed करूंगी फिर. तो and then वही है like if then we proceed with that then I don't know how they'd be with me and sign out. I hear you. I hear you. तो I feel a bit on the board. I know. I know. I hear what you are saying. हां जी. What does your heart tell you, मतलब इसमें थोड़ा institution नौड़गट पर जाना पड़ेगा. What does your heart tell you? I mean, I think there is a lot that I can learn from दादुर दादी and like they I do feel like they generally do want to help me in जाएना. Establish myself. But again, they're against mamma completely. I mean, more so दादी, दादू is still open, like दादू still talks to mama and, like, you know, tries to invite her for lunches and stuff. But If you work with दादी हां जी. Do you think mama will oppose it? I do think so. She'll oppose it? Or maybe she say outright कि नहीं कर सकते. But it'll you know sort of keep bothering her and then I think that will definitely happen. K. I'll go क्या करूं? मुझे समझ नहीं आ रहा है मेरा. हां जी. उसका बिना emotional she is very emotionally hurt. Very emotionally hurt. वही main है. And उसका trust एकदम ख़त्म हो गया है. हां वह तो zero ही है basically. And वह किसी को trust नहीं करती है. Exactly. वह किसी को trust नहीं करती है पता है. तो like even you know thinking about this like it's also hard for me to tell this to mama as well. It's it's, like, I don't I hear you. Un quité era cierto बेटा मैं एक चीज़ तुमसे share करता हूं. हां जी. ठीक है? मतलब my mother see I am in a joint business with one of my cousins. हां जी. She's my elder elder brother. And I decided that हमारे family में सब लोग separate हो गए. Right. And we decided we wanna work together. Right. My mother was not supporting it. One day I had a frank discussion with Okay? And with full respect. मैंने बोला mama मुझे यह करना है. ठीक है? अब आप रोज़ रोज़ अगर मेरे को बोलते हो कि यह नहीं करना चाहिए बाद में तो को problem हो जाएगी. It is very difficult for me. तो either I have your full backing. Otherwise, it is not something that मतलब मैं बेमन से separation करूंगा, and it'll be very painful for me. She looked at me. She said, I'm trying to protect you. Right. I know what happens in families and all. Right. But if you wanna do this, go ahead and do this. I have my full business. दिन के बाद हमने कभी नहीं बोला फिर. Mhmm. उसके पहले जभी भी मौका मिलता था ना वह बोलती थी. Right. तो यार तो एक बार एक frank conversation कर लो. प्यार से बिल्कुल respectfully. तो no agitation. हां जी. एकदम प्यार से कि momma मुझे यह करना है. मैं हमेशा आपके साथ रहूंगा. कोई ताकत दुनिया में आपसे अलग नहीं कर सकती. यह दस बार बोलना पड़ेगा बेटा. हां जी. यह बोलना पड़ेगा बेटा. यह एक बार बोलने से ना वह मतलब शाम तो ना नहीं होगी उनको and फिर देखते हैं mamma क्या बोलती है? Right. I mean as of right now, I think her line of thinking would be, like, if they truly like cared about you then they wouldn't want like, they would want not treat your parents like this sort of a. Line of time. वह बात तो उनके mind में तो zero trust है. हां, तो और वह यह लग रहा है कि आप बच्चों को प्यार करते हो, उसकी मां को प्यार नहीं करते हो. यह क्या बकवास हां जी. That is what she feels, बेटानी ना from her point of view she is right. Exactly. So it becomes a bit difficult to like, argue against that, like, I mean, yes, that has happened. So but I think, like What does your heart tell you? I mean, I mean, I wanna just go back to what does your heart tell you. Mhmm. Heart want you wanna work with them. I not sure about working, but at least learn from them. That I think. नहीं, मतलब but then without separating keeping your shares and joining world group, right? हां जी. मतलब you wanna join the bird group ना? Like, I'm not sure if that's the best approach, but I do want to, like, at least learn from their experiences. Like Yeah. तारी से एक बड़ी frankly बहुत बड़ी see वह तो learn from experiences तो अलग होकर भी हो सकता है. हां जी, हां जी. Learn from experiences तो अलग होकर भी हो सकता है. या तो दादी से एक बार बात कर लें. कि दादी यह problem है. आप मेरे को हमारा settlement करा दीजिए जिससे कि एक चीज़ एक piece हो जाएगा. और उसके बाद मैं आपके साथ सीखूंगा I don't know. Mean, is that a possibility? I mean, I'm I'm sure. Like But then you won't have shares in the bird group. Right? Then I won't have shares. Yes. So then But how do you ask her? What do you want? You want me to not settle and be या partial settlement कर दो एक हमारे को थोड़ा सा liquidity दे दो. मतलब वह चाहिए अभी तीन properties हैं, एक farm है. एक इदलौक है, एक गंगा bank से है and एक 100 crores है. यह चार चीज़ें मिलनी हैं तुम्हारे हां जी. तुम बोल दो कि इसमें से आप कुछ एक चीज़ दे दीजिए और बाकी मैं आपके साथ करता हूं. Is that मतलब I'm just wondering like like a slightly hybrid solution हां जी. I mean, that that is definitely what I was thinking about as well. And ऐसा सोच लोगे दादी आप बताओ एक बारी कि हर जगह peaceful करके करें जैसे relaxed होकर काम करें. हां. And in the middle of these settlement discussions, there was also point where my child only suggested that let's do a settlement with ममान not you and and let your shares be here. So that was maybe a line of thinking that but बेटा उसको ना कैसे position करना है मैं बता ता हूं. हां जी. अगर वह करना है ना एक minute रुको बेटा just one second. हां हां राम से. Yes. Yes. बेटा उसमें ना फिर अपने ऐसे सोचते हैं. इसको थोड़ा सा मतलब strategize करते हैं. हां जी. Massive भी गलत ना जाए. ठीक है? Ok. तो ऐसा बोल सकते हैं कि अभी भी क्या है ना वह अपने व्ली में दादा दादी कुछ भी दे सकते हैं तुम्हारे को. Right. Am I right? हां जी. फिर में तो कुछ भी दे सकते हो. So that's what they said and वही अभी one of the points in the recent discussion with the lawyers was कि वह कुछ नहीं देंगे. They want to mention that in the agreement. Now I don't know where that's coming हां जी. हां जी. नहीं, मैं बोल रहा हूं home की. Is it possible to see कि हमने see as even today in that in that property which is Number five. No. The spam. Yeah. हां जी. हां जी. They are saying it's sign on yours. Right. Nothing to do with mama. Mama is not a beneficiary. Right. है ना? हां जी. Banks, ABLOC and 100 crores. Mama is a beneficiary. Am I right? Not a beneficiary, but trustee. Yes. हां जी. Ok. All these three will go in trust, is it? So it's slightly different. The A block का मम्मा is a trustee. And in Not a beneficiary. Beneficiary is only me and Zinah. And in Ganga Banks, that's transferred in a company where mama and I are 30 shareholders there. Only गंदा Banks and 100 crores में सबका share है. 100 crores is also split. Across. Three. I see. हां जी. The way I want to position this, okay, I'm thinking, you also think a little bit The way I want to position this is that we are working with a hybrid solution Ok? Yes. We are keeping some rather than saying कि आपको separate कर दिया हमने. हां जी. Ok? We are working with a hybrid solution where we keep some shares and get some liquidity. Right. Are you getting my point? तो यह हम mamma को बोलेंगे. ठीक है? हां जी. दादी दादू को यह बोलेंगे या दादी को यह बोलेंगे कि हम mamma को separate करें. हां जी. Are you getting मैं and mamma को भी बोल के बोलेंगे? Actually momma को ही नहीं बोल सकते यार. पर it'll not. Yeah. यार मैं यही सोच रहा हूं कि अभी भी actually practically तो यही हो रहा है. हां जी. Practically तो यही हो रहा है. कुछ कुछ चीज़ों में तो उसको share मिल नहीं रहा. हां जी, नहीं मिल रहा. A block में उसको share नहीं मिल रहा. हां जी. She is basically getting 33% of गंगा banks and 33 crores cash. Right. Am I right? हां जी. Farm is not hers. हां. A block is not hers. But she's getting 33 crores in Ganga Banks and 33 and one third of and 30 crores 3 crore rupees, the cash. Right. Is there a way by which we can say that, look, you give us I don't know what is Ganga Banks worth. So according to them in one evaluation was 56 but they say it's a 156 now because of the lag. $1.50 According to, I mean, it's a bit confusing. अगर लेने पचास मान लेते हां जी, हां जी, हां जी. ठीक है? तो 50 plus 33 Right. Out of 100. Right. अगर हमको cash मिल जाए, हां जी. और बाकी सारे board group के हमारे shares रह जाएं. Will that fly? And you join the world group. With दादी रादु, I think yes. With Mama, I'm not sure how we do that. You want to do? Is this something which you like as a approach? See, we are stuck right now. हां जी. We are neither getting the shares Yeah. I mean, we are neither getting so we are neither joining bird. You are neither joining bird, bro. Nor are you getting independence. हां जी. अभी हम beach में अटक गए हैं. Exactly. तो एक extreme है कि भैया जो मिल रहा है ले लो. और ख़त्म करो. और उनसे सीखते रहो. They are still your family. You will be learning from them. Yes. That's one extreme solution. Yes. Another extreme solution is don't settle. Continue and know, keep your shares. And and fight. I mean, I know. Because mama is gonna fight the end of the case. I mean, the either then we both agreed or not. Do any case. और मानेंगे क्या वह? Mamma ने तो. तुम तुम join करोगे? हां हां. अगर वह तो shares रख लिया और board book join नहीं किया, वह तो worst outcome हो जाएगा. अपने लिए. हां जी. Will she allow? I think the bigger question is will she allow you to see again? One is you take the settlement. Another is you don't take the settlement and join work group. Right. So what is you take a partial settlement and join bird group. Right. जो भी हमने बोला हां जी. क्रोस. जी, हां जी. In both solutions you know, b and c is exit. B is hold everything, and c is hybrid. Right. Are you with me? हां जी, हां जी, yes. A a is exit. Hello? Hunty. Yes. Yes. A's exit. You get all the four properties. Yeah. A block, bank's cash, and if number five. हां जी. These, don't take anything. Yes. C is hybrid solution. Yes. Okay. In both b and c, to join bird group Yes. Otherwise फ़ायदा नहीं है PNC का? B and c का, हां जी. आप B and C समझ गए ना मैं क्या? हां जी, हां जी, हां समझ गया. BNC का फ़ायदा नहीं है अगर आपने birth group join नहीं किया. Right. Pero mamá, ¿la oí you to join the bird group? En both scenarios, Mean, I think we how we convince. And in mamma's head the value of the current settlement is $7.50. Right? तो when we get it down to 800 for her share, 80 sorry for her share, I'm not sure how she like that. You know? How is this $7.50 beta Is this $7.50? बेटा बाकी तो मिल गया ना उनको. हां जी. उसमें तो उसमें तो resort भी included है बेटा. So $7.50 is including basically the things that she getting. She's like it's a part of a whole thing. So that's fine. Mhmm. Exactly. And Would she allow you to join bird group? I think firstly, let's answer that question. I think main main question तो वही है. Basically. As of right now, I don't think so. I think we'll have to do a lot of convincing. Tell you. Do you also tell me what does your heart tell you? You can't be in a limbo. हां जी. No. I mean, my heart does does say that Hello? हां जी. My my heart feels that regardless of whatever way we go down, I do want to take forward papa's legacy, which is a significant part of the group. तो either if it's today, I join it or later down the line where I like, that he said, create my company and then that joins it. Later. I do want to get back to where I am able to carry forward. Proper legacy. So you want to join the group basically now? In the long run, yes, I think. Que o que Personally, for me, I mean, it feels a bit like, you know, it'll always bother me कि, you know, papa spends so much time building that and you know, I'm just not able to carry that forward. Understood. Understood. बेटा ऐसा करते हैं. हां जी. Again, one suggestion, you also mull it over. This is just my point of view, and it doesn't mean that it's the right point of view, but it's one approach. I think you have to spend some time with mama and keep reinforcing her all days And you have to say कि लेकिन एक बड़ा platform चाहिए बस इतना ही बोलना Right. बड़ा platform चाहिए. Right. पर मैं आपके ही साथ रहूंगा आपको कभी चिंता करने की ज़रूरत नहीं है. हां जी. I think over the next few weeks can you build that trust in all? Yes. Yes. I mean, She has to have equivocal faith. That no power in the world can separate you from Can you win that trust? वह नहीं है आज उसमें. हां जी. You win that? पर यार है भी तो 90% होगा, दस percent doubt है. 95% है पांच percent doubt है. हां, zero doubt होना चाहिए. Right? Zero doubt होना चाहिए. वह जो एक छोटा सा you know one drop you know, रह जाता है ना? हां जी. वह पूरी चीज़ को मतलब मड़ी कर देता है. हां जी. Mind में ना mind में clarity खत्म हो जाती है. Can you can you win this कि मैं आपके साथ ही हूं हमेशा? No matter what, पर मुझे एक बड़ा platform चाहिए. Right. हां, I think एक बारी दादी से भी parallelly पूछें कि आप क्या role दोगे यहां पर? वह भी important है ना? हां, I mean of course that that is अगर नहीं तो फिर वह should not get यहां पर कम मतलब कुछ ना कर पाएं और वहां पर भी तो या तो एक बार यह पुछ लो कि तादीश if I join, I'll try to convince कमा हां हां. Conversation you have बेटा. I think This conversation you have. If I join, हां जी. What will be my role and I want to learn under you what will be my role. हां. And what what do you what would you want me to do? Right. Then I will talk to mama to convince her. Right. That makes sense, I think. है ना? हां जी. इतना करते हैं बेटा फिर. Let's take one step at a time. हां जी. You can have this conversation. हां हां. Yeah. I can. हां हां. है. Good. Good. Have this conversation, then we'll we'll plan. एक और बात है. हां जी. एक और बात है. I think how should I say it? Mama had an Mama had a conversation with दादी, she told me. Ok. Where she asked for forgiveness. Right. I don't know. Did she tell you or not? I... She she said that, I mean, she hugged her, and she said, sorry and Yeah. And all that. Yeah. Exactly. हां जी. है? Is there a way you can get some reciprocation from दादीन? It will soften mama. Some little, not not too much, little. Just keep keep the sun. But हां जी. तुम तुम्हारा और थोड़ा soften हो जाएगा रास्ता. उनके मन में भी भी यह है कि उनमें कोई emotion नहीं है. मेरे को मैंने इतना किया, मैंने sorry बोला, forehead पर kiss किया. अब किया, माफी mummy कुछ नहीं. हां जी. बहुत सारे soften हो जाएंगे मम्मा बेटा. I mean Safety threatened हो गई. I will I think that थोड़ा धीरे धीरे और करना पड़ेगा. उसमें. I think that's definitely harder. But Keep this at the back of your mind. हां जी. तुम पहले अपना role पूछो. एक एक step लेकर चलते हैं आप. हां जी. अपना role पूछोगे दादी मैं momma को convince करने की कोशिश करता हूं. हां जी. आप मेरे को बताइए कि क्या role होगा? ठीक है, I think I think that is a good next step. तो हमें भी clarity होएगी ना फिर and then we can take a better call. बिल्कुल, absolutely. हां जी. यह जल्दी कर लो बेटा. हां, I ठीक है, let me just see. I mean, I'd most probably be meeting them for sure on Monday. I'll try to see if I can We, as in साईना and me, I have dinner with दादू दादी on Monday. Mhmm. तो वह तो I'll meet them. Before that over the weekend, I'll check with them if there's some time I can meet them and have the conversation. ठीक. बहुत बढ़िया. ¿Sí que? ठीक है. तो let's go go step by step. हां जी. And यह अभी मम्मा को मत बोलना. हां जी वही. I think, yeah, we'll take take it only only. Let's take it only. हां जी. You know? And but what you have to do with, मम्मा, I'm always with you. You don't have to worry. हां वह तो reinforce करते रहने. That keep it. और अगर मतलब सौ बार वह पड़े सौ बार बोलना पड़े पड़े ठीक है. I love you रोज़ बोलते हैं ना America में? हां जी, हां जी. वैसा है तो मतलब तुम रोज़ सोच लो कि उनको आप उनको comfort देना है बस. ठीक है. ठीक है बेटा? हां जी, हां जी. Ok my dear. ठीक है. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. In a very mature manner. You know? I'm always you. Thank you. I'm really really grateful. No no, करोगे ना, करो. Thank you so much. अच्छा होगा सब एक purity of intention के साथ and अच्छे हाथ से कुछ भी approach करते हैं ना? हां जी. The universe conspires to health. Thank you so much. Okay, darling. All the best, Peter. Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye.